Project Management is the Key to Happier Clients (Kimberly Graff)

Well, welcome to the Creative Genius podcast, Kimberly. I’m so excited to have you here today.

Thank you for having me.

I’m going to go ahead and just let you introduce yourself. I know that we’ve been friends for a long time. You were one of our OG boardroom members back in the day. But please introduce yourself and tell us a little bit about what you do.

I am the COO at Charbonneau Interiors and on a daily basis my hands are involved in just all sorts of areas of the business. So I mean from human resources to finance to sales to even

connecting with the clients and giving them updates and sharing installation information with my team and chatting with vendors and subcontractors. So a little bit of everything.

A track of all trades. And I also want to mention that, you know, there’s a lot of different design companies that they aren’t quite sure how like remote work can work for an interior design company. And your company, Charbonneau Interiors is in Texas and you actually live in Louisiana. That’s how that works for you guys.

Craig, yeah.

So I think that the desire to want to make it work is most important. and I have a great connection. I’m always a text message away, a call away. All of our clients know that I’m in Louisiana running things. But I have a great support team on the ground in Texas.

quite a large team there to support the clients. And I’m there to guide the team members through the day-to-day operations just via Zoom, via text message, via call. So it works. Before Zoom, we would FaceTime all the time.

Awesome. Well, I’m glad that that has worked out so well for you and you do go to Texas.

Yes, I go to Texas several times a year just when the business demands and also to get a chance to connect with the clients in person.

Love that. Love that. Okay. So you talked about a little bit about what you do on a daily basis as COO. And how does project management play into those responsibilities? Because that’s kind of where I want to dive into today is talking about project management.

Absolutely. Well, like I said, on a daily basis, I’m connecting with our clients, our team, subcontractors, vendors, builders, and potential clients. I am the first point of contact for the potential clients that are going to be working with our firm. And I do actually work closely with them, not all of them, but some of them throughout the design process. A large

Part of our portfolio is repeat clients. So I do have strong established relationships with many of them. And I’m connecting with them several times a day on various things that we’re working on for them. So keeping them informed of changes, updates, even discussing dreams that they might have for areas that maybe we’re not working on just yet.

And then spending a lot of time on the phone with my team, helping them to troubleshoot, to navigate solutions, to different roadblocks that we might be having, and then working on a great deal of planning. And also heavily depending on my accounting support team to help me with researching reports so that way I can help manage cash flow for the company.

So, yeah.

extremely important piece of it. Okay, so Charbonneau Interiors is known for its signature Charbonneau Care approach. So how does this philosophy influence your project management style? And tell us a little bit about what Charbonneau Care means.

So our tagline is actually connecting who you are to how you live. And what that means is really taking into consideration how the client lives their life and making sure that we are doing our best to meet them where they are. But as far as Charbonneau Care,

I think that oftentimes in renovation projects and new construction, even small-scale design projects, there gets to be a level of fatigue with many of the clients and just letting them know that we’re there for them to guide them through the process as well as understand that there will likely be some rocky parts along the way, but letting them know that they’re

that we are there to navigate the best solution. And we couldn’t do that without the team’s support. And so to help manage keeping tabs on how the team is feeling, the management team actually conducts regular team check-ins so that we can make sure that we are keeping tabs on not maxing out the team.

So just making sure that the team is healthy so that way they can truly be the backbone and the support system that the clients need.

Yeah, I love that. I love that. Well, let’s talk a little bit about the fundamentals of project management for running an interior design business, right? Gosh, think that in our industry, there’s so, or just an industry of rock stars, there’s so many details and specifications and problem solving that has to happen. And I think so many people on the outside that may be

hiring an interior designer have no idea how much work goes into making sure that a project really looks and feels the way it needs to feel. So what are some of the key elements of an effective project management system that you see for an interior design business?

I would say it would have to have a collaborative function or feature. It would have to have some planning elements. It also must include some type of mapping that acts as kind of a guide to help you stay on track if you lose kind of where you are in the process along the way. It should be detailed, organized, and support its unique users.

I don’t necessarily believe that there’s a one size fits all system for every single business. I think that every design business member performs similar tasks to support and carry out design projects, but not necessarily in the same order or in the same way. So I think that using different applications and software so it feels that it’s supporting.

the project management system within that specific organization and giving direction to its users in terms of where to head next.

Okay, love that. So what tools or software do you use to keep projects on track and how do they help you improve efficiency? Because I know that you are, you have that known for the efficiency that comes out with your team.

So many, so many species of software. We use Asana Harvest. I recently added Forecast to Harvest. QuickBooks, Slack, Goolsheets, and Bamboo.

Okay. Okay. So, can you talk to me a little bit about Asana and why that is your project management software of choice?

Yes, Asana is the grand central station of everything that we do. Everything starts there. It’s the software that essentially gives that direction. It gives that guide. It maps out the stages in the process. So that way our entire team knows what comes next. We take advantage of custom fields as well as the automations that Asana offers.

And it really kind of, yeah, gives the guide for the team so that they know where to go next.

Love that. And then how do you help your team balance their creative vision with all the logistics?

my gosh. This is such a funny question to me. Because it’s a painful reality. I don’t think that there’s a true balance. think that it’s a give and a take. I think that with some projects, you can definitely be more structured and kind of follow the plan to a T. And there’s other

projects that have to be more fluid. think that being realistic, that you create a plan on the front end and knowing that you need to give lots of room to the creative side, you know, whatever the lead designer needs to truly come up with the vision and then come back in with that kind of more structured plan. So that way we’re making sure that we are

producing those deliverables for clients.

And what challenges do you see inside of an interior design business when it comes to project management? Like, I know that you’re always helping your team navigate those challenges, but what are some of the key project management challenges that maybe we’re all dealing with, but we don’t necessarily slow down enough to go, it’s these three categories or it’s these four items or it’s these 40 items.

I don’t know that the challenges that we experience in project management is separate or in a specific category that’s separate from what all designers face as far as the industry. feel like back orders is an issue for project management. Just continued items are an issue for project management. Coordinating subcontractors, when you don’t have a general contractor. Shipping.

And how we navigate them is to clearly communicate and keeping the client informed with the right amount of information so that they So we can internally manage a solution for them And when I say right amount of information what I mean is is that these clients have hired us as a professional company to take on a lot of the headache from those things and so internally we are

dealing with the back orders and the discontinued by informing them of the extended timeframe that might be, you know, have come up as well as alternates, making sure that we’re presenting the news, but letting them know that these are the new choices. And with coordinate some contractors, that one is a bit of a sticky situation, but also having.

multiple relationships with different types of trades people so maybe you can navigate different solutions. And then with shipping, it’s just making sure that we are staying on top of giving client regular statuses of updates on reporting essentially so that way they know where things are at in the process.

Okay, and that kind of already answers my next question that I had, which it sounds like that is how you’re ensuring both your team and your clients feel supported throughout the project.

Yeah, I mean, I also think that formal focus meetings for those client projects and formal meetings with the clients as well and then updating them on Slack because we actually use Slack to communicate with our clients as well.

Okay, tell me a little bit more about that because that’s not what every design business does. So we use Slack in our business and we have our boardroom members set up in their own workspace and they’re chattering away about interior design business all day long. Love it. And that’s a great place for me to be able to go and say, hey guys, we’ve got a webinar coming up or we need you to book for our room or I’ve got a marketing idea for you. But not every…

That works out well for us because they’re in their own workspace. So how are you using Slack for your clients where it’s, you’re not saying something that maybe you’d be saying to Nancy in front of your clients. So it’s not speaking badly about them. It’s just like, know I work really hard and fast with my team and I’m pretty direct and I would never want like you to read like a direct comment about your project.

that didn’t have like a little extra like air and like warmth to do it, right?

Of course, it’s essentially exactly the way that you manage it is how we manage it in a separate workspace. When we first started to use Slack with our clients, we thought that we could have one single workspace. That worked for about six weeks and quickly realized that…

You can be in each other going, I don’t have my drapes in, like what’s going on with you?

Yeah, yeah, I mean, I felt like anxious on edge that I was having to manage and.

make sure that the correct external language was being used, rather than like you’re saying that fast and quick language that you would use internally with your team. Making sure that the team is being eloquent. So setting up that separate workspace is basically how we do it. And yeah.

So each just to review inside of Slack, there are workspaces. So you’ve got Charbonneau Interiors as a workspace and then you might have the Smith residence as another workspace. So we have.

No, so we have Charbonneau Interiors, which is our internal communications workspace. And then we have what we call a client correspondence workspace. And then each of those clients have a dedicated room channel. And all of those room channels are locked. So that way only the users that are, you know, the client as well as the support team who is in there, let’s say pod, even though we don’t necessarily have pods in our firm, are

part of that channel and then actually once we move into construction if the contractor will is willing we will actually create a construction channel and add the contractor there as well.

That’s great. Well, even in our business, we, it’s the fastest, easiest way to get ahold of us. Yes. I’m not in the box all day long. And I can guarantee you that I’m not as, as quick at responding to emails as I am to a Slack. And so, you know, people that we’re working with every single day, like our marketing strategist and PR person, she’s in multiple channels inside of our, when we were working.

when we work on our website, we have a connection with our web developer and our web designer because it’s just easier to keep technology and AirEd and everybody all together. So I think it’s really helpful to be able to add in a contractor and the other key players in the project. It’s just one point, there’s no longer like, and then I’ll also go copy this person on an email. It’s just, this is where, or a text message, this is where we’re gonna communicate.

Yes, yes, completely takes the like did did you get that information to the contractor? Did you see my approval out of? You know, it answers the question that might be sitting in the client’s mind.

and kind of gives them reassurance that it’s being taken care of. I also love the fact that the entire support team is there to support the lead designer. So that way, if a question needs to be answered and that lead designer is in a meeting, the team can step in and answer and say, hey, you your designer is, you know, busy right now. However, we’re working on getting you a solution. We’ll be right back to you.

that. Okay, so let’s get back to client expectations and managing those client expectations and our project. Everybody’s all time favorite thing that is so important. mean, it sounds like you really have this nailed because it sounds like a lot of your business comes from past clients and keeping the relationships up with past clients, which means you’ve created a great experience for them when they work.

That would be the goal. So what are some of the strategies that you use to manage those client expectations and keep them engaged through the design process?

I would say providing a timeline very early on after they sign a contract.

You mean like, are you giving them all of their upcoming meeting dates as well?

Yes, so during the welcome call, what we do is that we have a detailed timeline that can be, you know, sometimes as long as two years in advance. And they’re basically seeing that we are creating a very detailed plan for them as far as what we’re going to be working on in any given week, as well as highlighting the potential meeting dates that we would like to coordinate with them in the beginning.

So that welcome call is very much a coordination time of schedules and travels and things like that, as well as going over what the team might be working on to develop their project through installation.

Okay, and let’s talk about when things don’t go as planned. Great. So could you maybe share a time or a project, an example of a project that didn’t go as planned and how you handled that? What kind of lessons maybe that you learned from that?

I don’t think that I can name one specific example. I feel like the biggest lesson that I learn over and over again with handling projects is that you have to be flexible. There is all good intentions in the beginning of every single project and I definitely let the potential clients know that this is subject to change. It will change throughout the process.

and that depending on how quick you’re making decisions, how quickly you’re falling in love with just different designs that we’re showing you, how many more options do you want to see? And all of those factors are going to be a evolution in terms of how.

how strict we can be to stay to the timeline that we map out in the beginning, but that to expect that it will be edited and updated along the way. So I think flexibility, flexibility is the biggest lesson.

Well, and I think also the expectation setting of like, here is what this is going to look like. And then we, it might move around a little bit, but we’re all on the same page of what, where we’re starting. We’ve got a map that we’re all starting on. This is the most we can walk through together. love that. Right. You talked about Slack as one of your tools that you use for communication. how do you foster strong communication and collaboration among your team members?

So we have what’s called the designated potato catcher in our organization. Yes. And so essentially what that means is that there’s a person, there’s a responsibility, you know who is responsible for that given task, and then you have a assigned backup person that you know that you can go to. So it creates almost like a partnership.

amongst the team so that they know that, you if they’re going to be out, if they’re overloaded, trying to support another facet of the business or something like that, they can go to their designated potato catcher that will support them and kind of step right in. So I feel like that creates collaboration in our organization.

Well, and there’s really no better name for that. Really. I we talk about all the time when girls like don’t is I think she goes between skunks and socks, but like, don’t take this skunk back on the plate or don’t take the socks back on when you’ve like handed it off. Right. but it goes to like that, that doesn’t the designated potato catcher. It’s like, like I know who my person is. And it’s like, we’re not trying to search out who’s available or.

who has the inspiration to help. It’s just like, this is my other gig. I gotta go get this done. Love it. Love it. Well, let’s talk about efficiency and scaling the business. You are, I know when we first met and you and Nancy were going through our boardroom program and our VIP experience.

You have such a great outlook on like using your business acumen, but also like with some fire beneath it. You know that black and white of like, we’re going to get this done. We’re going to get this shit done. We’re going to make it happen. And you know, sometimes it’s I know I’ve heard Nancy go Kimberly tells me that it’s gotta do this and I gotta do it this way, you know, and it’s almost like those.

the bumpers, right? That come up when we’re taking our kiddos, bullying, and we’re just trying to keep them on the right path. And I think that there’s ways that you’ve really figured out how to use your God given talents to use that inefficiency and scale in your business. So with that introduction, that grand introduction, what processes or systems have you implemented at Charbonneau Interiors to improve efficiencies and profitability?

I think using custom fields in Asana and taking advantage of automations that Asana allows. Without those two things, I think that every other platform that we use essentially gets automatically generated from using Asana and the custom fields. And it takes the, crap, I forgot that one thing out of the process.

So could you give us an example of a custom field and an automation that go hand in hand together of what that might look like?

So we use Asana for our new leads process. And so anytime a potential client inquires to work with our company, you fill out the form on sharpeninventures.com on the contact form. And that contact form is essentially connected to a new leads project in Asana. And immediately I am assigned seven tasks.

And it reminds me like, okay, Kimberly, like you have this new person who is interested in working with your company. These are the seven things that you’re gonna start with. And depending on the custom field, qualification status, essentially, that I have kind of notated in there, depending on which one is then selected triggers additional tasks to be completed.

depending on how they’re then routed. it’s very precise based off of the qualification status. So as far as like me verbally explaining the mapping, might be a little confusing.

But you’re the one that is saying this is a green light, this is qualified, this is a yellow light, this is more information. Correct. Yes. This is definitely not an ideal fit. And let’s refer them out. OK. Did you set that up on your own or did you guys have someone, like an expert, Anasana, help you with that?

Yes, we’re going to.

Absolutely, yes.

So we actually have a person on our team, her name is Tracy, and she helps us with all things Asana, essentially. Yeah, she first actually came to our company and about three years ago she was put on a mission to learn more about the Asana platform and that’s basically her whole job.

is to make sure that we are using Asana in a way that is efficient for the interior design business and creating automations and new custom fields and writing rules on a regular basis that support our processes in our organization. So, yeah.

What a gift, mean, and you found a human being that likes to do that.

Yes, I know. That’s amazing too. I know. But I do it.

a unicorn there in your internal Asana area. I that. Okay, so how have you or how do you handle multiple projects at once without sacrificing quality or client experience? And so I know you talked a little bit about making sure that your team is healthy and happy and not overloaded and you got the potato catchers, but are there some other ways that you kind of help your team handle those?

multiple projects at once.

think try our best to stagger the projects as best as we can. And then also to try and take on a diverse range of types of projects. So not just exclusively focusing on whole home design or new construction or yeah, like having some maybe smaller scale projects. So then that way,

You can actually serve a larger amount of people, but then also not have such burnout as far as being able to really celebrate the win at the end of the project with those kind of smaller projects that take a lesser amount of time. So you can actually see them come to life. So that way the team is getting highs.

off of what they do professionally. So I would say that trying to stagger and trying to keep our portfolio diverse.

Love that. Okay, so what advice would you give an interior designer who is looking to scale their business while maintaining a high level of service?

I think notating the functions that only you can do and basically freeing up your time so that way you can zero in and focus on the money generating functions.

Mm-hmm.

So, see ya.

like we help people do every day too in their businesses, know, kind of breaking apart the business and figuring out how to get you truly in that owner’s seat so that you can scale and do the working on the business instead of in the business. Yeah, that’s great. Well, let’s talk about the future of project management and interior design. It sounds so serious. It’s a big deal.

Yeah.

So what’s one piece of advice that you would give to interior design business owners who struggle with project management?

invest in a system that will support you in the process so you’re not reinventing the wheel every time you’re moving through the design process. feel like interior design projects

are, they’re difficult enough. Every client wants and expects a one of a kind design, a unique design. And I feel like the process and the procedures should not have to follow that.

Yeah, I think that that’s a good point. And it’s not necessarily like a one size fits all, but it’s not always having to reinvent the wheel, right? Every time we run into a new cog in the wheel or a new problem that the systems that you have dialed in are set and they’re working and they’re working and then you can keep adding to those.

Yes

I know even, again, I know we’ve talked a lot about Asana. There’s a lot of different types of project management tools that are out there. But I mean, I’m always a big fan of as people come through our VIP experience, know, asking them if they’re using Asana. I mean, there are some incredible spreadsheets that some of these interior design businesses are using. And I’m all for a good spreadsheet. And even inside of our business, we have really solid spreadsheets that we use for different things, but also

It’s really not a project that’s happening unless it’s over in Asana. Like Asana makes it real, right? Like that, and we know this is officially a marketing project. This is officially a client facing operations project. This is something that the coaches are working on. We know that that is, it’s real when it goes over there because then it has deadlines and it has tasks and it has an outcome that we’re really seeking for the business.

Yes, yes I agree. I mean that is why I truly believe that having that new leads project in our Asana workspace works beautifully because you go from essentially a new lead in Asana and then I decide okay now are you going to become an active client and then once you’re an active client are you now going to go into what we call our

project parting process. So you’re moving through the entire lifespan of the project in Asana, but in different projects within Asana, if that makes sense. So yeah, I mean, I can’t agree with you more. I mean, we also have Google Sheets that we must use to support our design process. Our finished schedules are in there, our timelines.

are in there. Meeting schedule lists are in Google Sheets, but all of those are also linked back to Asana. So that way everybody knows, okay, this is where you go get that information.

Yeah. Love that. Well, you are just incredible and I’m always eager to pick your brain on so many different levels. We have a whole other side of things that we talk about when it comes to the moon and the stars and the universe and why we’re all on this planet together. But I just really appreciate your time and sharing a little glimpse of how your brain and how your energy works on

the organization and operations of your business because I think that any small little moment that we can take a morsel and go, I could have my leads be coming into Asana into one place that is all together that I could go back and look at the archives of those leads. I can look at past clients that I want to try to bring back to the surface. It’s even just a small morsel like that and having it all in one spot is so

hopeful for our listeners. So what are three different takeaways or ideas that you’d like to share with our listeners today that they could take back to their business in their.

I think finding a way to be joyful with your clients in whatever you do. think that working in interior design, I feel blessed to provide amazing furniture, rocks, drapery that helps improve our clients home environment. And it’s a gift when you can match.

the client’s happiness and energy and ride that jolt of excitement with them. I also think that it’s important to surround yourself with a team that shares a similar passion and are motivated towards a common goal. And if you can find a group of humans that want to journey with you,

Love that!

to take care of them because in a sense, your work community, your work team are your chosen family. And I think the last thing is as best as you can to try and define the roles within your team because then everyone knows who’s accountable for what.

Excellent. Yeah, accountability is something I think that we all have. It’s a muscle that we’re always needing to continue to work on. when you can define whether it’s that you’re the designated potato catcher or you are, you know, you’re the lead designer on the project, that’s very important. So, Kimberly, thank you so much for your time today and sharing your expertise in the COO role of Marlboro Interiors.

Well, thank you so much, Erin, for having me. I enjoyed chatting with you and sharing.