Essentials of Project Management (Sarah Kimball)

Well, welcome, Sarah. I’m so excited to have you here. We have known each other for a few years now. we’ll talk about that in a second. But tell me a little bit about your background. How did you get into project management? Sure. So not necessarily a direct route, but I went to school for theater. So I graduated from Montclair State in 2014 with a degree in theatrical.

production and design. And then in our programs, we were able to pick a concentration to go with. So I chose lighting design. So I graduated in 2014 with that degree and I spent, you know, just over a year in the theater world. So I was freelancing and working for some other designers and that number of different spaces. And then

I made the shift. I wanted to get into something that was a little bit more stable with, with, you know, the, the consistent paycheck. So I thought of architectural lighting design just as, an interesting stepping stone from theater. And I came across, focus lighting, which is in, New York and architectural lighting design firm. And they had a lot of people that were working there that had come from a theater background.

So I made that shift there and then I was placed into, know, they have a project management department and a design department. So I was placed into the project management department and then it really just clicked. I have a lot of natural management, project management qualities that I was able to really get into it and with the background of design, it made it even more

really like fruitful because I could understand that side while understanding the, you know, how to run a project, how to see it through successfully. So I stayed, I stayed in the architectural lighting design world for like 10, nine or 10 years. So that was my transition into that. So. Well, and that’s how we met. You were working for a show and

and you were there and I was working with you and Matthew and another member of the team. So it was kind of an interesting and this is something that I do that I don’t do with a lot of clients, but I coach teams. And so I was working with your team. So what were some of the things maybe you can share from your perspective with getting and how that impacted what you were doing as a project manager for his company?

Yeah, so we met right at the start of the pandemic. I think it was really like the day before sort of the world went into the lockdown. So I think that added an interesting dynamic just because the company was transitioning into this remote work from home global pandemic situation. And we were just starting this leadership team and really trying to get to know one another.

and get cohesive in that. So what I really liked about working with you was there was an accountability. There was a process and procedures that were known. You had tested them and now every company is different and has different people, but really like those foundational qualities. So I really liked that because I sort of felt like if I take

to heart what Pearl Collective and Gail are saying and I adapt it to what I know my team can do, we can be so successful. So we had VIP days with you, were, there’s so much information, but such good conversation comes out of that and you really get to learn about your other leadership team members. We get to ask you direct questions about specific problems we’re having.

And then we had our quarterly check -ins with you, which again, I think it really just gave us that feeling of accountability and that somebody had our back. So I think some of the things that I took from that in terms of my own projects were really checking in with one another. Because you made a point of doing that with all of our sessions is sort of to start out by like, how are you? How are things going?

What are you stuck with? What could be better? And really just listening to us. So I did try to adopt that with our team. And I, we started to do quarterly check -ins, which we found to be really helpful with our, with our group and just kind of, you know, how are you? What’s a struggle that you’re having in life? How’s it affecting your work and things like that. And then I think sort of setting that precedent of when you come to a meeting.

I’m going to ask you how things are going. So sort of that preparation of showing up, being prepared, and really putting in the work. If you put in the work, you will see those results. And you were really good at steering us or not that we were misaligned on something, but really just

personally navigating us towards a better approach or a different way of thinking of something. So those are definitely some things I took with me. There might not be one set way to do it, but the foundation is there and then you modify it. So. Well, what I found really interesting, and of course it made such a difference as having somebody that understood your role in your

that could actually take what we were talking about and make sure that the team was executing. Right. Yes. And that’s always a challenge, right? Well, yeah, especially if you have someone who’s a founder, who is more of a visionary, then they’re the execution people, right? So they need someone like you who can actually listen to what consulting you’re getting and take that and apply it and make it happen. Bring it life.

I think it’s critical to have somebody who’s a second in command that understands that particular part of it. It’s a key piece because for somebody that doesn’t have that brain, things feel very overwhelming. Yes. And I, in my role, and sort of have this like innate ability to see the big picture and then also

I can figure out how to break it down into those achievable goals so that we get to that finish line. Because I think sometimes, you know, hearing the end goal and then seeing where you’re starting, you’re like, I don’t think we can get there. I don’t even know how to start to tackle that. So yeah, it’s sort of being that bridge in order to get you there. And the big thing is really,

understanding the goal because that’s the only way you know really how to make your to make your plan to get there. Yeah and I think too that just that you’re almost like the translator because if you have somebody who’s consulting with you and you have somebody who’s got the vision somebody’s got to make it happen. Right. And so you are the translator for those two people. Exactly. So yeah definitely

sometimes the not fun position of being realistic, which you need. I think the visionary role is to dream big, think big, have those ideas that, I’m not a visionary. I really respect and understand that role. So then you lean on that person that’s like, okay, this is how we’re gonna get it done

We got to come back to this in six months. This is not a goal that we can achieve right now. that realistic part, they can work really nicely together. I think it’s essential. And I think you read the book Rocket Fuel, right? Yes, I did. And I would recommend it to anybody that is working solo.

in their business that they should read that book and they should find one of you. Right? absolutely. It’s a perfect, it’s a perfect team. When you can find that person that gets you and complements you and then you’re both working towards whatever that visionary’s goal is for their for their company. Sure. Yeah, you’ve given us a lot of great you’ve given me a lot of great book recommendations that

They take a couple reads just because there’s so much good information, they’re really insightful. Well, that’s great. Yeah, absolutely. I think you have to keep on top of new things all the time and just new ways of thinking about things. Right. I’m curious. So what was it that was so interesting to you about project management because you were coming from such a viewpoint? And then this is very left brain. So how did that

I, I, I think I’m more of a plan. I’m definitely more of a planner. I don’t think I know that I’m definitely more of a planner. I’m more of a, I like to make sure things are like myself or my teammate or my partner or whatever is like, we’re set up for success. We’ve done, you know, the prep work to get us here. So.

I don’t know, I think maybe the design wasn’t, you know, for me going to be the long term of my career. I don’t know if I knew that at the time, but sort of getting into that nitty gritty and making something work was just, it felt natural. It felt like the natural path for me once I got into it and I really saw, okay, I can understand a design because I have

creative background and my creativity also allows me to get these projects going. I can think creatively and maybe it’s not designing, but it’s problem solving. So I have enjoyed this project management track and I definitely don’t regret my design track because it got me

But yeah, I have to switch my brain sometimes, especially when I’m talking to fellow designers. I have to sort of switch it that we’re not in solve mode. We’re not in that mode. We’re in the creative mind. I have to kind of switch those on and off. OK. Yeah. That’s very interesting. So what you’re describing to me is somebody who is a dual dominant brain.

both sides. So you have the right and the left brain and you are using both of those, but you seem to have a dominance toward the left, but you know, use a creativity to communicate. Yeah, I have never, I haven’t heard that put that way, but I think that that perfectly describes it. you know, I see that a lot, even, working in, you know, my own home, we do a lot of like home renovations throughout our, our house.

And there is that period of time that we give ourselves where we’re just designing. What is our room going to look like? How do we want it to feel? What materials are we going to use? And I’m able to live in that world. And then when that’s done, it’s time to just like, boop, switch into that next one, which I think if you’re working in a creative field.

finding somebody that can speak sort of both languages is a really good person to have on your team. Sure. Well, I thought too, I was thinking about just all the meetings we had, your questions were so good. Every time you asked a question, it was so thoughtful and it was deep. you were trying to the heart of the issue, which is something that that’s a skill set that not all project managers come

and just being able to dive down into why should we do this? How should we approach this? What’s the best way for us to tackle this? And what’s realistic? And like you said, just having that realistic viewpoint is so important. those are great skills that you have. So let’s talk a little bit about what are the key characteristics of a good project manager, especially, like you said, for a creative business? Sure.

Definitely. I think some of it revolves around the probably like the type of person. So I was thinking about this ahead of time. And I think things like being tactful, being kind and approachable, being firm, being transparent. I think those are all really good quality traits for a project manager to have. And then you of course, want to look for somebody

is solution oriented, won’t just throw up their hands when sort of a roadblock comes, a self -starter, which I think this is from you, are you a starter or a finisher? And I hate to say, you have to be both. In some regard for a project manager, you have to be both. You have to be able to pick up a task from the start or you know that something has to get done or there’s an idea and you have to see it through to the end. If you’re a type of person that gets

distracted by the next exciting thing, that’s a challenge because the project manager has to finish the task. Even if it’s boring or there’s something more exciting, they have to be able to do that. So they have to see that all the way through. Obviously, clear communication is a big characteristic that’s needed. And I know that gets tossed around a

You have to be a good communicator. But it’s true. And you have to be clear. have to be succinct. You have to put yourself in the receiving end shoes. One piece of advice that I got at my first job, it was something that they would say. You type out your email, maybe pause. What are five things that somebody that’s going to receive this email is going to ask you? OK, you thought of those? Edit that email.

Hey, looking forward to seeing you on Tuesday. What Tuesday? What’s the date? What time? Where are we doing it? Is it on site? Is it on Zoom? Is it on Google Meet? So those sorts of things, that amps up the clarity of communication. So I think that that’s a really big one. And then being focused, being able to lock in on your task at hand.

clear out all those other distractions, but also, you know, knowing if somebody, if a coworker, if you’re working in like a shared space and a coworker comes over to ask you something, being able to get back into your task or being able to really say to them, hey, I’m in the middle of something, can I meet up with you in one hour? Will that be okay? So I think knowing yourself and how you can or cannot be distracted is a really…

is another, is a good characteristic to have. Well, especially because there’s so many founders and visionaries that are a little ADHD, ADD, something like that. They are like that and they get caught up into that next shiny object and I’m guilty. And I think about it sometimes in the operations person on our team, you’ve met her, she also is one of those people that

dive right down into it. She can see from up here at 30 ,000 feet and she can see down at this level and come back up and she can communicate and say, maybe this is not the right time to be working on that. Exactly. And sort of to that point, understanding how different people on your team like to receive information. So you have to be the one that holds all the information, but you have to know that, okay, my founder has

30 seconds, because they’re running out the door or you you can’t hold their attention for that long. Okay, that’s the information I’m going to give to them. This teammate likes maybe some more detail. I’m going to give them this information. And then this person needs the most because they’re the partner on my team who I’m going to pass work off to. So you hold a lot and you have to know your team well enough and how to really give that information in a way that they like.

It becomes harder when you’re working with outside teams, like let’s say it’s a contractor or an architect. But I think you have to figure that out sort of from the start and then everybody can get locked in and then you know what kind of information you have to give. Yeah. I love that, what you said, and I want to make sure that becomes one of our takeaways. We’ll repeat it now and then later. Ask the five questions that they would be.

wanting to answer. Yes. before you send that email. That is so good. That is, I’ve never heard somebody say that, but that’s great advice. Yeah. I’ve take, I’ve, mean, I probably learned that, you know, week two, my first job and I’ve really held onto it and thought that’s such a, it’s how you take your, your communication or your company or the way you present yourself.

to that next level. So I use that a lot, pretty much every time I write an email. my gosh, I was just thinking, I’m getting ready to do a team training for a client and we’re going on site for that. And take that and share that with them, because I love that idea. thank you. Absolutely, of course. Well, now that we’ve talked about some of the good characteristics that a project manager should have, what training should they have?

Next, and then the follow up for that is what do you not want in a project manager? It’s hard because I admittedly, you I don’t have an educational background in project management, but you know, there are so many degrees or certificates that you can get online. If that is something of interest, know

I have a friend that’s just finishing up a course that she did, a two year thing for, for project management. So that’s always an option if people want to go that route. What do you not want to look for? That’s such a, it’s a, it’s tricky because I think, you know, for every style of project, there’s a project manager that could work for it.

Somebody that doesn’t see something through is not going to be a great project manager. Somebody that isn’t willing to understand the why, that really makes a, it gives you the accountability and the ownership of the project when you understand why, in my case, the designer is making a decision. So if you can advocate for their choices, that’s a really strong team.

So if somebody isn’t really willing to understand the language of the design, that’s gonna be a challenge. I won’t say it won’t work, but like the person that gets distracted by the shiny object, it’ll be challenging to get those tasks checked off the list. I think you’ll have a bunch of almost finished tasks remaining on the to -do

So that becomes challenging. then, hmm, what makes, I mean, somebody that’s disorganized, that won’t work. Somebody

back to like the quality of trace of the person. Somebody that’s unkind, I think that they could make a great project manager. Do you want to work with that company again, if your interaction with the project manager wasn’t, you know, as positive or collaborative as it could have been? That’s why I like to sort of mention that is people will come back even if things went wrong, but the experience was good. They felt like

had an open communication, then I think that that’s way better.

It’s interesting. I was thinking about you did another questionnaire for us prior to this to prep. And one of the things you mentioned, which is very common, and I hear this a lot, is that you felt like you had imposter syndrome. yes. And I bring that up in some of the podcasts that I do because it is such a thing. And there’s so many people, I think we all have a certain amount of it. And maybe because you didn’t have the degree in project management, maybe that’s part of

True, yeah. I don’t know. But the reality is your behavior is more important than the education. Right. But if the imposter syndrome attaches itself to maybe the education and not the behavior, then that is really easy to get in that little trap of believing you shouldn’t be doing this, right? Exactly. And it’s such a, it’s a mind game. Cause I think I also said that

I have a, I do feel I have imposter syndrome and I do really believe in myself. So they do, they do battle sometimes where I do have to give myself that pep talk that like, you know what you’re doing? You can do this. Like, come on now. You’ve been doing this for 10 years. You, people like you, people enjoy working with you, which I think at the end of the day is very, almost the most important thing.

people should like to work with you and you should be good at your job. I’m certain, yeah, the imposter syndrome, I don’t know where it comes from. Sometimes it’s like, what would I have to say? Why would people trust me? And maybe it is the education, which I don’t, I certainly don’t regret or like I am educated, I have a BFA.

But there, yeah, there is that small part of like, but I didn’t go to school for project management. So how can I be on the same level as somebody that spent four years or, or got this certificate or got this extra degree? so I have to, you know, kind of, you got to give yourself that pep talk that you’re doing well, you’re doing okay.

You’re going to be fine. You’re good at it or I would have had you on here to talk about project management. thank you. So what software do you like to use for project management? So I have been using Asana pretty much my whole career so far. I’ve tried some trials of other ones. I’ve tried clothes. I’ve tried

I think it’s called Monday. Those just didn’t click for me. I felt like closed specifically, there was almost too much information. It attracts, it tracks your emails, how long it’s been since you’ve checked in with this person. Also it tracks potential projects, lost projects, current projects. So for me, was almost, it was too much to upkeep. Too much time was like being spent on doing that.

So I’ve really liked Asana. It’s really easy to set up a project. It’s really easy to invite your other team members to come and join that. And then you assign, you create a task and you assign who’s gonna do it and by when. And I think it’s a really good, it’s really good also for checking in with one another. Like let’s say you have a weekly check -in and then you can have all your information right there and you can see that. So I’ve primarily used

used Asana for that. And they’ve added so many new features now so you can automate some things. I’m sure you’ve played with all of that. Yeah, there are tons of those features. Even just the baseline, like if you’re not interested in paying a premium for it, there’s a lot that you can do. And then, yeah, if you pay for that premium, there’s even more, which is great. They have Gantt charts that you can see or calendars. You can set priority levels.

So that is a good feature if you can pay for the premium. Sure. But I use the basic one for now. Sounds good. Yeah. Well, I think this is a question a lot of people have. If they don’t have a project manager on staff and that’s not their, maybe their strengths, how do you think about setting up a project plan? I love starting new projects. I feel like it’s that, it’s almost like wiping the slate.

clean every time. So my process, and this is even before you get to a, maybe a process that your company has is, you know, we get the project in, I would start a fresh Asana page or whatever project management software you’re using. I would get a handoff from, in my case, the designer. And that’s sort of what I spoke about before is get that handoff so you can understand their thought process for decision -making.

What to them is, you know, this is a priority, you know, and scale down from there. And then definitely review the proposal or the contract, whatever the client signed, review it. What’s in there. What am I accountable for? What’s the budget? What’s the timeline? What is excluded? So a total review of that. So you’re up to speed and you know, the ins and outs, especially if you’re not the one that created

contract. Sometimes there’s some questions lingering there. And then I like to get introduced to the other players that are outside of the company. So in our case, who’s the contractor, who’s the architect, who’s the interior designer, who’s the electrical contractor. So really meet all those people and start on the right foot. Introduce yourself. Here’s my contact info.

and start to set up those, you know, the open environment for communication. And then I like to check out the deadlines when are they hoping to open or move in or whatever kind of project it is. And then from there, I work backwards. So if we have to open the store in July, how many months do we have? And then I start to look

What are long lead time items if we have to order things or there’s production time in there and then just start to see, how do we get those things started first? Cause if those things take a long time, let’s get them done so that we can start working on those quicker things. And then I, get my paperwork set up. So in my case, I would have a shipping schedule. I would get started on a subbital or spec package.

And really just get, do that prep work, right? So that when the time comes that you’re ordering or you have to submit something, you just need to do it once over, update the date on it, and then get it sent out. and then from there, I mean, communication, keeping your team updated on the status, roadblocks, potential roadblocks that you see coming, but they’re not a problem yet, but you feel that they might be all that stuff.

is just keep that communication flowing. Yeah, it’s so important to do that. So this is a question and maybe it’s not, maybe it’s a little rhetorical, but do you think time tracking is important to being a great project manager? Definitely, yes. So from my experience, I’ve worked at design firms that we have to track our time, meaning the company’s time to bill to the

How I look at it since my time usually wasn’t being billed is I need to know how long it takes for me to do a task. I need to know how long it takes on every project. Now, probably a lot of things will be the same, but you can also scale them. a project is $10 ,000 versus $100 ,000, there may be more involved,

If I know how long things take me, I’m a better estimator of my own time. And I’m a better estimator of somebody on managing time, especially if they’re new. If it takes me one hour to do something, I’m going to give you two hours, then let’s check in. And then you, the new person have a gauge of where you should be. so I think that that’s super important. think being able to estimate your time, that’s a really big thing for me.

I am very good at it, like almost too good where I can tell you and I hit it right on. And it’s something that does, it’s one of those things that does frustrate me when I work with other people. You said it would only take an hour, we’re on hour three, like how come you didn’t know this? So I have to, you know, I have to realign myself to just sort of figure out

that went wrong and I really try to make it a point that, you you have to be, you have to be accurate. Even if it’s an estimate, you got to, you have to know this because we need to know how much time it takes for this project to get complete. Or, if we tell a client that this will get out by end of day, is that actual? Can we, because we don’t want to start off on that wrong foot where we’ve promised something and now it’s two days later and they still don’t have

They weren’t updated why they don’t have it. They had to ask for it. So I think that’s really gonna, accurate estimation of time is really, really starts to build that trust, which I think is really necessary. Well, there are a couple of other things I’d like to add in there. For example, city planning, if you have a team and different people are doing different tasks on the team.

You need to know how long it’s going to take so that you can accurately say to the client what the timeframes are going to be. And the other thing that is, if you don’t know, if you don’t benchmark your projects on time and money, then how do you know if you’re really profitable on those projects? And it will come back to bite you. that’s especially if you have inexperienced people on the team. So to me, time tracking or if someone who is an employee is listening to

This is why it’s so important is because your company has to make money having you on the team because if they’re not, then there isn’t a place for you because you have to be conscious of the fact that your time is a valuable asset for which the company must charge. Exactly. And it can be tough because if the proposal was written for 40 hours, this section is going to take us 40 hours.

and you as the employee are spending over 40, but you’re feeling guilty, so you, you know, amend your time. It can’t be because they’re taking that data and they’re saying, hey, for this project, we estimated 40 hours and it actually took us 60. So this next project, we’re going to propose 60 hours. So, you know, you might feel bad in that moment. I only have 40 hours and you know, I’m already on hour 60

One, you should tell somebody. I was writing way more time on this. I’m not sure if I’m not understanding, is there a more efficient way or was the time estimation off? And then they use that to build better for the next one. exactly, so that your company is profitable on every project. Right. Yeah. I was hearing this the other day, I was in a seminar and they were talking about the fact if you don’t time track, then

If your company is not as profitable as it needs to be, that’s where you start is to time track because then it’s going to help you figure out where are people spending their time so that they can ensure that everybody’s working on the right thing. Right. I think it’s if you don’t, you know, run that report monthly or right. It’s scary where you’re where the time goes. How much time is being spent on lunch, rep visits?

you know, all of these different things. And you need to really paint that clear picture of is my time, is my team wasting time or are the project proposals not actually representing how long it takes to do something? It’s probably both. Yeah, it can be both. Absolutely. Absolutely. What software do

recommend for time tracking? So what I used most recently, which worked for me was it was T sheets, which is QuickBooks time tracking software. And that was relatively that was relatively easy. You put in your time, assign it to the client, it gets put into a system.

It doesn’t get sent, but you you put that in and you try to be as detailed as possible in the notes section, which is something that, you know, at my last company, we were saying, you have to tell a story, right? You have to tell a narrative with your time or the client’s going to get the bill and question things. And then you’re in an awkward spot. So really, you know, putting that detailed information in and then it gets populated in QuickBooks and usually

the person that sends the bills out, the CFO or the controller, they just attach that, they attach the time and then the client can see. But it’s pretty, the T -sheets is pretty user friendly. Okay. Well, I was thinking back to a story that Erin and I talk about this a lot. This is when she was an intern for me almost nine years ago. Crazy.

Yeah, we were, she was pretty new. She was an intern that had gone to school. She had a degree in design, but she had no idea what it was like in the real world. And so when she came to me, she would do different tasks. And when I looked at her time, I would sit there with a red pen and highlight it. And she, she watched me do this and she got so upset about it. She said, well, why are you marking those out? I said, it took you too long to do

right. well, how can I be faster at this? And I said, okay, I’ll teach you how to do this. And so I took her to the design center and I showed her how I shop for projects and I walked her through it a couple of times. can see the process of how I did that. And before long, I wasn’t marking them up very much at all. And what happens is when you have an employee whose mindset

Why is the owner doing that? Because that’s costing the owner money. So I caused the company money and she felt bad about it. Yeah. It doesn’t always happen that the employed is thinking that way. But if they can think that way, that every time it takes you too long to do a project is costing everybody money. And guess what happens if the company loses profit from that, you don’t get raises, you don’t get bonuses, your opportunities aren’t there. If you’re not efficient at your job.

then you may not have a job. So there are lot of reasons for being good at paying attention to how to be more effective and more efficient. Definitely. it’s, I, I tell people in both regards, whether you’re managing or you’re being managed, it’s okay to ask at the start of a task, how much time should this take me? So as a manager, it’s okay to say that to the person you’re giving a task to an easier to do this.

It should only take you an hour. And then vice versa. If that person received a task, excuse me, manager, you know, how long should this take me? And if they say an hour, I would be watching the clock to when I get to an hour. And then I would bring it to them. And it’s either, that’s the moment of self reflection. Am I not working fast enough? Do I not understand? Or was this not enough time given to me baseline? So yeah, that’s an interesting.

important thing to think about. Right. I think you have to be thinking that way because as a company, the purpose of having an employee is to make money for the business. Right. And so if they are cost of the business and they are not paying for themselves, exactly. There has to be a decision by the owner about whether that person should be on the team. Right. Even the people who are non -billable like accounting people still

they have a responsibility to be utilized to help the company make money. Exactly. But there has to be some attention paid to the resource of time because that is the most important resource we have to manage as project managers. Absolutely. Yes. And similar, know, I, my time was not being billed, so I wasn’t directly making the company money. But I knew that if I

set up this process, told my team that it is billable, worked faster, I’m making the company money. You know, those sorts of things or finishing the project on getting everybody in the same motion to finish the project on time, I’m making the company money. So yes, it’s important for kind of, I mean, every person on the team, regardless of if your bill is going directly to the client or not. And that’s even for the owner and the founder. True.

So how do you manage others to keep them on task?

Yeah, I, you know, there’s a lot. Yes, there’s a lot of a little bit of psychology to it because you have to understand your, your team and everybody works differently. And for me as a manager, I’m not a, I’m not a sink or swim kind of person. I like to be involved. like to give clear direction. And then, you know, from there,

I set achievable goals. I think that helps people understand what can get done in a day and then also feel like they got something done that day. I think everybody needs those small wins. Usually what I do to start when I’m managing is I like to set the tasks prioritization for the day or for the week. And then as time goes on, I like to give that responsibility to the person.

and have them sort of check in with me so we can see are our tasks prioritized or realigned. And this is what I think that you should be doing. You’re saying something else or maybe you’re saying the same thing. So definitely prioritize the day, what’s most important to get done. I think explaining the why, you might’ve mentioned this before, but if somebody understands why they have to do something and why it has to be today,

or this week, I think there’s more accountability, there’s a better understanding, and you’ll likely see that that task gets done. They understand why. And then the time estimation, just starting from the first time you’re managing people, estimating how much time it’s gonna take to do something, really, I think, helps identify areas of improvement.

And again, the why, like why should it only take you one hour? Because, you know, this, that, and the other thing. continuing to make sure that your team knows the goals, whether that’s the goal for the project or the goal for the week or the goal for the day, if you bring it all the way back down, that’s really important. Yes, I call those dailies.

Because the dailies, if you have the dailies, if you’re doing the right things during the day, the results show up. like you said, starting at the end and working backwards so that you know what the dailies need to be and then actually perform to those dailies, you should be getting a certain result. If you’re not, then your dailies are incorrect or you’ve set the wrong goals. Exactly. Exactly. And you

People like to cross things off the list. People like to feel like they came to work and they worked hard for eight hours and they got their whole list done. That’s great. That means you set achievable goals to get done in the day. This wasn’t a three day goal. This was a one day goal and you did it and we’re moving on to the next. I, know, being able to manage that and know the type of worker that you’re, that you’re managing. Do they need hands -on? Do they need

be stood over, you know, whatever, whatever that type of person is, you have to know that and then, you know, set them up for success. That’s so important. Not beat on them, but help them. Yeah, exactly. Right. Support them and learning how to do this because people, especially in the creative professions, they don’t go to school for project management. Right. Right. Right. And so exactly, we are project managers.

And we are also very involved with sales and accounting. All three of those things are tied together. whether people think so or not as designers, we have to be good at all three of those things. Right. Exactly. And explaining to the person you’re giving a task to, if there are other things that are attached to that task of why you need them to get it done. Yeah, I think that that helps them feel

included. Obviously, it’s geared towards their level at the company, but I think that helps them feel included and part of the team and supported and that you’re here to support them. Maybe you’re the manager and you have a little bit more knowledge or you have more responsibility, but if your team can feel like you’re there for them, I think that that’s really important. So true.

So if somebody, and a lot of the companies I work with do not have project managers, so what are five questions that someone should ask to determine if somebody is going to be good at it? Yeah, I think really understanding their style of communication can be really key. How they prioritize tasks, how they create an

of collaboration on their projects. I would ask your question, are you a starter or a finisher, and really see how they answer that. And then even without asking any questions, I believe that the way that they communicate with you in order to set up an interview or with their resume can really, really indicate a lot.

what I had mentioned earlier about what are five questions before you send that email. You know, if you’re communicating with someone and they’re being very detailed, they’re saying, can’t wait to talk to you tomorrow, you know, five, nine at 12 PM on zoom. That’s a, that’s like, that’s a green flag. Um, if they’re forthcoming with information, meaning you send them an email, we’d love to set up an interview. They write back. That sounds great. Here are some dates I’m available.

It’s that forward thinking that you want. You want somebody that is five steps ahead, that’s being not reactionary. They’re planning for it. They’re being proactive. So those are some things you can see even without being face to face with that person and asking them those direct questions. You can already see their communication style from that. And I think that those are some key indicators. Okay, excellent.

Well, I’m going to ask you one last question, and this one is a big one, and that is, what are the five keys to effective project management?

Five keys. I got that one. Anticipating this too. Yes, that’s true. Okay, let’s see. I have some thoughts. So yes, so creating a clear plan from the start and relaying that, which that ties into communication, relaying that plan both internally and externally is you’re all on the same page and you’re setting everybody on that page. Creating a clear, creating environment

clear, healthy and transparent information and communication. If you have that open, roadblocks, issues, problems, I think they’ll come more freely because people won’t be afraid. They know that, we’re going to solve this together, but I should make them aware. Anticipation, absolutely. What’s your contractor going to need? What’s the next step I have to take?

How can I set myself up for later? So anticipation and then taking ownership of the schedule. It doesn’t have to be the whole schedule, but what’s your part in meeting the deadline? Really taking ownership is really key. You feel like you’re in charge. You have command

your tasks and the work you deliver, can be really proud of it. So being action oriented and not afraid to talk, whether that’s on the phone or email or hiding problems is not good. So take that ownership of it and then checking in, which I think we hear a lot, but no news is not good news. Something’s happening behind the scenes

You haven’t created an environment of open communication. People are hiding things and making their own decisions. So checking in and being really positive and confident and collaborative. That’s, that’s a key. Even if there, even if there is a stall in the project or, or something, just drop a note, drop a hello. We’re still here. Let me know how are things going? If you can get to the job site, if it is a job

show your face, you know, people will, people will latch onto that. So that’s a, that’s a real key. Well, fabulous. This is so helpful. I think you shared a lot of great ideas that will help people who are hiring and people who are on the team as well. So I think you answered from both aspects, which is really great. And just shows how good you are at communicating. thank you. Awesome. This was so cool. I haven’t done a podcast before,

This is my first one and it was good to talk to you. You did a great job. Thank you so much.