Serendipity and Scale (Dwayne Bergmann and Kyle Barrett)

Well, welcome to the Creative Genius podcast, Wayne and Kyle. I am so excited to have you here and we’ve gotten a chance to get to know each other over the last year or so. And you’ve told me this wonderful personal story about how you two met and I’d love for you to share that.

Dwayne, I’ll you take the lead.

Sure. So I do think there is something serendipitous about the way that we met. Neither of us were looking for, I think, a long term relationship. I had come out of a very difficult divorce and Kyle was

at the end of a four five year relationship himself. maybe not the best of times when you were looking at it going, okay, I’m ready to meet the person that I wanna be with the rest of my life. So just kind of behind the scenes that was individually happening. But on the serendipitous part, I was working in a project in New Orleans that I had been, it was a two year project and I was in month 18.

of the project and I literally flew in once a month on a Tuesday same flight in the afternoon would get in land go check the project out quickly work all day Wednesday and take an early evening flight out of things like a six six o’clock flight on Wednesday. I always stayed at the same hotel. It was just like clockwork we just did this every month so this particular trip.

My operations manager said, I don’t know what is going on in New Orleans. I can’t get you in anywhere. I can’t get you on a flight. So you’re going to fly in on a Thursday evening. You’re going to work all day Friday. Like you’re going to get in really late Thursday. So you’re not going to go to the project Thursday. You’re going to work all day Friday and you’re going to fly back on a 6 a.m. flight on Saturday because I can’t get you out any other time. OK, I mean, it is what it is.

like an oh by the way you’re staying at a completely different hotel on a different part of town because that’s completely was like thirty five hundred dollars a night or something it was ridiculous so okay it is what it is so I fly in wait Friday morning waiting for my car to arrive and I’m outside of this hotel and Kyle comes up and I was just starting to make small talk you know what

brings you to New Orleans. Because no, I’ve been in New Orleans enough at this point. Like no one is, it’s very transient. No one is just there visiting. Usually they’re doing something and usually it’s a convention or whatever. But he said, oh, I’m here working. said, oh, me too. You know, what do you do? And he said, oh, I’m here for an event that I’m working on. And I said, well, I’m a designer. working. He’s like, oh, well, I have a design firm as well. And so we just chit chatted for a little bit and I handed him my card and said,

If you’re around later and like to get a drink, if I get back, I don’t fly out until tomorrow morning. Would love to hear about a little bit more about what you do and where you’re from and all that good stuff. he said, well, the event is a wedding that I’m doing for a really good friend of mine. And the wedding is this evening. So I doubt that I can meet you. It’s going to be a busy day.

But why don’t you text me? Here’s my number. Why don’t you text me or give me a call around 10 o’clock tonight and I’ll know, you know, what, what, you know, if I’m going to be, if I’m going to be back at the hotel and we can, you know, maybe be late, late at the bar. So I text him at 10 and he said, I’m still at the reception. Why don’t you come over? And I was like, hell no.

I am not crashing a wedding, period. That is not my style. One, I’m not dressed for a wedding. Two, I can’t imagine crashing a wedding. And three, I know no one there and I don’t know you. Like the other part was like, this is a kind of a risk. I just met you on the street, literally, this morning. That’s true, that I want to go to a wedding venue.

reception it wasn’t the actual wedding so

that was reception. So he convinced me to go. I ubered over to this venue and walk in and we talked for just a few minutes and he introduced me to the people that he was working with and then he said, hey, let’s go. Why don’t we sit over there? There’s a quiet corner. And we literally went off to this corner at the reception and sat at this table. And this is probably 1045 at this point.

And around, I mean, we just started talking like this just nonstop back and forth. no, think we both lost track of time. And one of his workers came over and just ask a couple of questions. And she came back and he said, my goodness, we we’ve got it. We’ve got to go. I’ve got to help them get all of this torn down. We had been talking so directly and were so just engrossed with each other and the conversation they had completely.

torn down the entire reception, had everything packed and it was two o’clock in the morning. And she’s like, no, everything is done. We just need to tell you that it’s time to go. We all need to leave. Everything is packed up. So he drove me back to the hotel, said good night. He went on his way and kind of left it at, okay, you’re in Texas, I’m in Florida, kids, you have businesses, I have businesses. Let’s try to…

You we’ll try to keep in touch, but it was one of the things it’s like you’re really cool. I don’t know how this would ever work.

next morning.

I did. So I had so I didn’t really sleep. I had to get up at four. So I was you know, I sort of like got my stuff together and the airport so on the on the flight I was like at six maybe he did sleep so I texted him you know it was really nice meeting you and safe travels on your way back to Texas today and he started texting and we never stopped.

That’s so cool. And how many years ago was that?

Going on, it’ll be four in literally seven days. Oh wow.

Well, congratulations.

Thank you.

And I’m glad that you just reminded me that it will be, it’s four days. I just made a calendar mark on that. It’s crazy. It’s been with our work, but it is funny. Let me, let me tell you one thing, Gail, that you already know about Dwayne Bergman. When he ever says I wasn’t dressed for something, he’s not being honest. He looked like he had walked out of, as my grandmother would say, a Spiegel catalog. And, and when we met, had on, working this event, I had on a

a cap and a dirty t-shirt with floral stains all over it, shorts and tennis shoes, and he was dressed to the nines. So don’t let him fool you on that part.

Yeah, we know all about his dressing style. that’s a great story. Well, you both have had a really interesting journey. And I’m going to start with you, Kyle, about how you got into design.

actually it was, it’s very interesting how it all happened. Whenever I was, I was living in Dallas in my early twenties and, I had always had a, an interest in florals. I worked for TXU energy, in large commercial industrial side of customer service. But, I had a good friend that serviced a lot of very high end clients in Dallas, with their floral needs, would go in weekly or for,

for parties and things like that. And I started helping on the side just because it was something I enjoyed doing when I was off work. And so that was kind of the start. I was also in Selam, a licensed realtor. And so one of the first houses that I did, I sold a large ranch home to some clients from Florida. And the lady looked at me she said, I don’t know where to even start.

to decorate this house. You know, I’m so excited to have it. I said, well, I’ll help you. And so that’s how I started. And then it just spread from there. And then, so I would sell a home and then a lot of times I would turn around and help them redesign the home. And then my design business took off so fast that I had two businesses going at once along with a party equipment rental store and a cattle ranch in East Texas. So staying, we’re staying very busy, but that’s how it started was just by fate. And,

And I’ve been addicted ever since.

That’s a great story. my gosh. You guys have such good stories. So Dwayne, you were at our recent boardroom retreat in Scottsdale and you also shared this story about decorating cakes. And I’d love to hear that story again.

Okay, so the colorful part about the story. So really, you need to have my mother’s face reaction that you can see as I tell the story. I always tell her like if you didn’t really understand that your son was slightly different than your you know, my older brother than you were not looking because I started decorating cakes when I was in third grade.

Like with 4-H took a cake decorating class and then they were like, oh my goodness. I mean, I learned how to do the roses in a minute and it was putting out all these things. And so I got all the tips and all of the bags and I made my first like three tier wedding cake with the.

You this is the Midwest, so it had the bridge. If you remember the plastic that went to the two other two tiers on the side down to another bridge. So, you know, that was my first wedding cake that I did. And.

just from then on, I would get requests and I made decent little cash for, you know, a fourth, fifth grade. mean, I would make four or $500, you know, for a big wedding cake would be like $300. And so for the little sheet cakes, I were doing like a farm scene sheet cake, I can make these little pigs and sheep and whatever, know, so John Deere tractors.

So I would have this little side business as a as an elementary kid. And we get calls for birthday cakes and anniversary cakes. And so sometimes my mom would make the actual cake itself and then I would just do the decorating. She would help me with that. I was at that point. I mean, I can’t say I was an established baker at that age. I could definitely do the decorating, but I needed a little bit of help to make sure the cakes were always consistently. The right.

You know the right. Moistness and flavor and all that good stuff she would help with that but yeah I started I think that creative side started really early even painting and stuff like my mom still has a horse painting that I did when I was maybe first or second grade. And then all the art always enter every all the art contest and all that good stuff so it was that part was innate and.

You know that looking back I mean I didn’t I don’t think I realize any of that at that point that okay there’s a creative side but it just came out anyway there I mean again like what nine ten year old boys are decorating cake this is.

I don’t think I’ve ever heard anybody that did that at nine or ten years old.

It’s not it’s not like a normal. Hey, okay I’m gonna go make wedding cakes as a fourth grader, but I enjoyed it I had fun and it was it was a kind of a way of just saying This is really pretty and I guess if you boiled it back the the whole idea was I liked making things look neat and tidy and pretty and interesting and three-dimensional and that’s like I mean going back to the farm cake like they were three-dimensional animals like I would they weren’t like just flat with

star tip whatever i like actually made where they sat on top of the cake and anyway

Which kind of ties in with you both having grown up on ranches. So tell me about that. I guess you two were just meant to be together.

I left mine.

I’ll jump in first and you can, cause your ranch story is way better than mine. I ran away from that whole part of my childhood for whatever reason. So one of the interesting things about meeting Kyle is that was such a huge part of my life for a long period of time, including riding and showing horses competitively and having a rural

farm Midwest background and being raised and knowing how to roll your sleeves up and get dirty and put up hay and drive a tractor and all of those things are fantastic. in my late 20s, I just, I like hard stopped and stopped riding horses and really left that entire part of my being.

I’m behind and had just close that book completely until I met Kyle and then started to sort of re engage and.

I know it’s impacted my current aesthetic, overall perspective of design and just being able to even tap into a different level of creativity. And to that extent, I’ll make the statement about the furniture collection. I drew every single piece sitting at

Our little round table in our guest house at the ranch and I don’t think I would have been able to create the designs and certainly not the quantity of designs if there wasn’t this whole rest, but kind of this piece and sort of reconnecting to the past and coming full circle and going, okay, you don’t have to shut a chapter. You can still evolve and that can still be a part of who you are as well as the more metropolitan.

European things that you like. You don’t have to give up some things in order to enjoy others.

Well, sometimes just reconnecting with whatever your past is, is a really important thing because it’s just, who you are. It’s who made, it is what made you who you are today. And I just remember seeing a picture of, you were texting me a picture, Kyle, when you were on vacation this summer and there was Dwayne in his blue jeans out there. I don’t know if you were feeding the pigs or.

the

Yeah, I was on the back of the chutes I was coating them with fly spray and warmer

my gosh. Yeah. my gosh. Well, you too have learned the work ethic, haven’t you? Over the years.

It’s kind of funny when I was growing up, just a little side story. I was always an entrepreneur. really wanted to, you know, I wanted to make money. wanted to, I wasn’t a normal kid at all. I was in the creek bottoms and climbing trees and working cattle and riding a horse all the time. But when I was about,

you

six or seven, I had a little red wagon like most kids, but I had chickens in a garden and I would literally, my mother would help me wash the eggs and clean the vegetables and put them in little bundles and I would go through the whole neighborhood and I would sell out. And I’m not sure if they bought it because it was great produce or they felt sorry for me, but I took such pride in that. so excited. And I tell a funny story about myself that, you know, when most kids,

had a go-kart, I had a goat-kart. I had a goat at the ranch that literally would pull this cart that my dad had made for me. And everybody in town just thought it was the funniest thing because if you’ll remember those little brooms that were small, that’s how I would steer it. I would pat him on either side and he would turn right or left and woe would make him stop. We never figured out reverse, but.

Ha

It definitely was interesting growing up on the ranch and memories that I will never ever forget and I think it’s definitely made me part of who I am.

It’s so funny. Thanks for sharing. I hadn’t heard that one. was a one. Okay, a goat cart.

Yep, how’d it go?

It’s real.

Oh my gosh. I could hang out with you, listen for hours to your stories. So, Dwayne, you don’t have a design degree, you have an MBA. And what led you to be a designer? And tell us a little bit about how you started your firm in the first place.

Sure, so I, addition to being raised on a farm and roll, my uncle and my grandfather and my dad worked part of the time as well in construction. they were, they built homes, they built barns, was around all of that my whole life. So there was, there’s always a knowledge of the construction side of the world.

But to be frank, design and interior design wasn’t even anything that anyone ever spoke about in the part of the country where I grew up in Missouri. It just wasn’t like I didn’t know anybody who was a professional designer. It was either you were an art teacher or you were in some type of more visual arts, but it just wasn’t a career path that I didn’t even know it existed.

probably later in my 20s when I first had some additional exposure to true professional interior designers. And that’s after I got recruited by the Home Depot. And then I was working on the HD Supply side and we had a division called Creative Touch Interiors. there’s some other touch points along the way, but that impacted the interior design side. But really that was the timeframe where I got

A lot of exposure to interior design plans and reading the plans and looking and sourcing products that were specified for those plans. And then getting very involved in the projects and some of the project management pieces of that. So. It was kind of an interesting time and some interesting exposure to that, but. Even though there was exposure on on. On the professional side, and then the personal side.

the true design piece, again, it just sort of happened organically. So I bought my first house when I was 19. It was a small like 1700 square foot house. I paid $71,000 for it, think, $71,500. And I was telling Kyle the other day, I did all the wallpaper myself. I painted everything myself. I think I did everything but hang.

Are wire the light fixtures. I’m pretty sure I brought somebody into wire the light fixtures but you know, I laid the carpet and you know did all this stuff on my own and About a year later there was I this is when I was riding and showing horses. I had a client came and spent the weekend and He’s like, you know, my my sister is moving to this

to this area and she wants a smaller house, think she’d like to buy the house. I sold the house for $125,000. I probably had $10,000 of like actual cash. And again, this was dating myself, but almost 30 years ago now. So, you know, that was a lot of money to go from, you know, 71 to 125. And there were no realtors involved in

You know, it was just a nice it was a nice thing and so that kind of parlayed I started, you know, I buy a house. I would do my thing to it. I’m living it and every single one would somebody would come and make an offer and typically want everything but my clothes. So.

I just did it.

I wouldn’t sell my clothes, but they were like, look, just your immediately personal items, but they would want all the art and just have everything was done. So I did that multiple times. And then in 2009, I bought a, would have been my largest project. So it was about a 4,200 square foot home on an acre lot. And if you recall, that was not a great real estate time.

In two thousand eight two thousand nine markets were not really great so this house had been listed it was originally listed for about nine hundred thousand and I had just watched it was in a great community and the pricing came down and I ended up buying it for like four hundred and fifteen thousand I think but it was terrible it was really really bad.

There’s no way to describe the pictures that I saw. mean, you really should go into a little bit of detail about some of the things this house had because it was, it would have made.

We don’t have we don’t we don’t have all day for that. But what I will share is the real tour that had the house listed. She met me at the door. I walked in and she was like, you know, thanks for coming to see the house. And I was like, OK, I’d like to see the rest. She’s like, really? Everybody walks in and walks back out. And I said, yeah, I want to see the house. That’s why I’m here. But the one thing I will say is the master suite you walked.

into the primary bedroom area and it was kind of open into this closet. had a sunken round tub, carpeted in pink carpet.

the

Old mirrors those of the closet doors had gold gold framed mirrors all around the closet so that that’s what that was your view from the the bedroom as well. So you stepped up on this pink carpet into this area. You walked around a pink carpeted sunken round tub so very like 70s Vegas inspired. So anyway, that that’s one of the elements and why most people walked out. So I anyway I did I completely.

I ripped this house apart. The biggest renovation I ever did, including adding steel beams to structurally open up. So I took this very chopped up house and opened everything up. And in that time, again, if you think stylistically, was before we had really gotten into that industrial modern movement. but that’s where I took this house. So I did like walnut stained

concrete floors throughout. We had an exposed steel staircase with chunky walnut treads and stainless steel railings. just the entire house was, it was just not a typical house for the time timeline or the timeframe. then it was also much more modern than we were still seeing, especially in Florida. We were still in that Mediterranean. We were still stuck in that moment.

So I had a charity event at the house and 1 of the people that came was the editor. I mean, it was editor and owner of Gulf shore life magazine and they were doing their initial annual edition of what they call home or at home. think is what they call it now. They just call it home, but it was called at home and they would feature. I think it was 8 or 9 properties throughout Southwest Florida and up to.

this one they had they had done I think they’d done one other edition and they in all the homes were in were in Naples. So they were looking to try to showcase a little bit more modern and they he was having he was having a lot of challenges so he just approached me at the after the event and said you know I would love to feature your home and again I was unaware of like how that any of that works I had never been exposed to that so they they came in they photographed the house staged it photographed it did a

It was like an 8 or 9 page feature and then the questions were, know, who was the designer? Well, I did the design work. Who was the architect? Well, I didn’t have an architect. did all I did all of that. Who was the general contractor? Well, I pulled my own permits and hired my, you know, my subcontractors. So I started getting phone calls after this was on the newsstands for.

several people that had renovation projects. I was like, and this is the part that I feel the worst about now is I was like, I have a real job. I am not a designer. I work a full-time job. I have an MBA and I work for a company and whatever else. So I was very dismissive. And so finally, after the fourth or fifth call, my partner at the time said, why don’t you just try it?

Like what do you have to lose? You’ve been open and honest with them that you’re not a professional designer, that this was your hobby and you like doing this. Because the article kind of got into some of that that I had done several other homes and all this good stuff. So I said, know what, you’re right. Why not just try it? So I chose what I thought would be the most challenging project and client of anyone who had called.

And did the project in the evenings and weekends while I was working and it turned out fantastic. And she referred me to like three other people. And so when I resigned from my my my role, we had eight active projects that I had been working on. And I worked from seven or eight o’clock at night till three or four o’clock in the morning. And then I worked all Saturday.

Every saturday and sunday so when talking about starting your firm. I did start my firm technically while i was employed working nights and weekends. And you even when i get my resignation i mean they asked for an extended period of time just to offload my job so i always say i don’t i don’t feel like i didn’t need to service to my employer.

While while working and again two separate fields at the time, but. I didn’t have any expectations of of of creating a large firm at the time. I simply enjoyed. All of the design work and it was all renovations at that point, so all remodels and it was very rewarding. It was a lot of fun.

hired two people very quickly to work with me within the first 60 days after being officially launched. And it just took off. And never stopped working 18 hours a day for the most part for the last 12 years. So that’s the, I think that’s the backstory.

Well, that’s definitely a glutton for punishment doing all of that. And because you both run several businesses, so Kyle, I’m going to give you a chance to kind of tell us a little bit about that. And the two of you have a line of products together. You have furnishings for vanities, have florals, you have candles, you have all sorts of things. So share a little bit about how that whole business.

Well, something I’m extremely excited about and I tell designers and shop and store owners when we see them at market. I have to apologize before I get started because it is exciting. We have a company, Barrett Bergman Home, which is shopbbh.com. We are designers for designers and in that, which includes the shop owners. But it’s a company that Dwayne and I

Dwayne already had a small part of this idea starting whenever he and I met and it kind of exploded from there. We have a fragrance line that is just absolutely wonderful. I’m so proud of it. It’s really been great. We’ll have 12 cents by the end of the year with three holiday cents added to that as well. Our top of bed is very, very unique and amazing.

What is it, Dwayne? 500 different fabrics you can choose from for designer? Thank you. I thought it was right. But then we have several that are already pre-mades, but the needle is amazing. Our sheeting is just top of the line. Dwayne and I have probably slept on a hundred different sheet sets over the last three years. It’s been a very long process to put this together before it was launched.

583 to be exact.

Learning as we go in many areas because it is some of these are new for us. We have a floral line that we’re so proud of that was launched at High Point Market and had a really great response from I had a florist for many, many years in Texas and I never liked artificial florals at all because they looked artificial and I think at the last count we went through a little over 1000 stems of florals choosing the very best quality.

of the most realistic, the best feel before making our arrangements. And right now, I think we’re at about 114 different arrangements that I would put up against any competitor. I’m really, really proud of our florals. DeWayne has an amazing vanity program that is very unique to the market, Handmade USA. But we actually can brand the designer’s name on the inside of the door.

which they, though it’s, it’s, it’s Dwayne’s design, they can put together the look that they like. And that would be, they would get the credit for that design every time the door was open. It’s a reminder of who, who that designer was. So, and that’s kind of how we’ve tried to do the entire Barrett Bergman line is even with our, our pillows. We have a Mulberry silk pillow that is just absolutely like sleeping on a cloud, but it comes in a great canvas bag.

We can personalize the front on the leather label there. Our leather products are from Peru. Absolutely wonderful Peru in Italy. I actually traveled to Peru set with a artisan at 110 year old company. The gentleman is 82 years old and has worked there since he was seven. He started sweeping the floors and so he has been there that many years and though we didn’t speak the same language, we created a

respect and bond, would show him what I wanted done. And he would do the work and show me. And after several attempts, we came up with some really amazing products that just aren’t on the market. But one of our main things that we wanted to do is make a promise to designers and shop owners that if one of our products were placed in their house, it would be something that they wouldn’t go to a big box store or the internet and find that it would be a unique.

that product that they would place in their clients home. One thing I do love to tell designers and shop owners is you can take a beautiful piece of accessory and place it in someone’s home and it’s beautiful. But if you have something that you can place that has a story and you can tell that story about how it was produced by a 110 year old company.

by a man that’s worked there since he was seven years old. He’s 82 and he made this with his hands. It goes from a beautiful piece to an heirloom because what, and it still gives me chills and makes me know that we’re doing the right thing here because for people in the design industry, how wonderful is it to be able to share that with your client? Not as a sales tool, but as a tool to show the importance of the product. You could have someone, Gail could buy a

One of our trays, for example, are our leather frames and someone comes over says, wow, that’s a beautiful tray. And then Gail gets to tell the story. Let me tell you about this tray. It makes it so much more important. And that’s something that really excites us about Burt Bergman home.

That’s great. Well, it’s kind of exciting. And besides all of this, you’ve also grown by acquisition. So Dwayne, you might want to share a little bit about that because you bought a business a while back. And that is a great way to expand your business. But tell us about how that all came about.

Sure, so I started working on acquiring a new business prior to covert actually. And so this was these were kind of ideas that I put into motion. Late 2018, the beginning of 2019 and I was looking at a business on the East Coast of Florida. And it was a it was an interesting design firm. They also had a retail.

presence about a 5,500, 6,000 square foot furniture showroom in Fort Lauderdale in addition to the design business that was adjacent. So I thought, this would be interesting. It’ll give a little bit of retail exposure and kind of expand our design work from the East Coast to the West Coast. at that point, I had had several projects on the East Coast of Florida. So I thought, OK, that won’t be so bad of having

You know, to go back and forth between the two sides and for people who aren’t aware. So the Fort Lauderdale from Fort Myers is about 2, 2 and a half hours. So manageable to go and come back in the same day. I’m not easy, but manageable. However, during the cobit timeframe. Everything being shut down, we were right in probably the last 90 days of due due diligence.

And I just pulled the plug. It’s like there are so many so much uncertainty and. I’m unsure with any any retail environment at that point, so that deal I just let it let it go. And. Again, I think sometimes in the universe when you put things out that you want to do that, I got contacted by faith fix who the owner of freestyle and she just.

You know, just reached out and it was just general conversation. She just said, you know, I’ve seen your work. I commend you that you launched your business in Fort Myers instead of Naples. She’s like, I thought I would try to do that 40 years ago and tried it and quickly, you know, reassessed and focused on the Naples market. So she’s like, I just I’m just.

Very impressed that you were able to grow the size of firm because at that point I had 20, I 2526 employees in DBI and we were doing, you know, 50 to 75 projects a year at that that timeframe. So. We just started talking and after and they were just casual like maybe maybe meet every 6 or 7 weeks and after a few.

few meetings she point blank said you know are have you ever thought about growing your business and I said absolutely I in fact I tried to buy this company in Fort Lauderdale and I’ve been sort of looking at you know different things that pop up I was like I’m not working directly with a broker but you know I do have some feelers out and she said well interestingly enough you know I’m I’m

nearing the timeframe where I need to figure out what my succession plan is. So that’s how it all started. And we spent another year simply working out details, really making sure our cultures would align and a lot of our thoughts and values were similar. So we were able to put a successful deal together. And I took

took full ownership of that company on and she’s still a part of the business and plans on being there for as I’m happy to have her involved in the gauges as long as she wants to I know she has grandchildren that pull her to the east coast into the west coast both New York and California so that’s one of the benefits of.

Adult children, know, adult children and getting to that stage when you have grandkids and so I don’t know what the long long long term, you know, looks like for her. But what we have we have a very strong working relationship and. As long as she wants to stay involved, I’m sure we will have. A role for her to play so that has that’s they were the same size of firm that.

that I had in Fort Myers. So we pretty much doubled in size immediately. And then I wanted to enact a little bit different strategy. And that was part of, as I assessed this acquisition, what it could do for me in terms of my other future plans and longer term goals. So it’s really worked out well. It’s allowed me to re-divert work to the

the freestyle location reduce the number of designers that are under the DBI brand while we’ve increased the number of employees at the freestyle location. So we’ve really kind of taken this, taken the approach of diverting a decent amount of design work out of DBI to freestyle. And that has allowed me a little bit more time and energy to focus on

Product development, launching and growing the the barrett Bergman home. Business and then positioning ourselves for kind what we want to do over the next 2 to 5 years. So. Acquisitions, I think are an amazing way to grow. They all have their pros and cons not something that you should do without a lot of thought and careful consideration. And patients.

And I think that’s the other part. I mean, it’s definitely something that you need to be. Ready to to have back and forth conversations. And if I think the most important thing is that the cultures are not very closely aligned, it can be extremely difficult.

Well, it’s really interesting because you’ve built all these businesses. So obviously you’re, you’re an empire builder, both of you. And it’s really cool to watch this because you’ve gone in, is it 13 years? I think you said when you started this business. And so at this point you are, I don’t know if you want to share this, but you’re welcome to, if you want to say what you’ve built it to, how many people, revenue, whatever you feel comfortable sharing.

Yeah, I, we’re a little over. I always have to check the, the employee count, but we’re just under 50 employees. Currently and. You know, I’m very proud we’re a multi million dollar. Organization collectively, we, you know, we manage a significant significant amount of projects.

But we have and I always tell people that that’s because we have a large design designer base and so when you have 13 14 15 designers that you know can manage four to five projects You know when at that point you say you have 50 to 60 projects, but you’re spreading them across 12 to 15 designers, then it really allows each designer to have three to five

key projects that they’re focused on and in my experience, that’s a really good number for most even at large project size. mean, most of the time designers can handle three, five, seven, even up to ten projects if they’re more furnishings and decor. So we’re very, very blessed. We have we’ve had as a solid

Kind of growth trajectory and year over year for the most part. And we’ve been able to manage the storms that have have come through the economy and the different changes. But but that goes to speak to the quality and level of designers that. Have have always been associated with both Duane Bergman and freestyle and that’s not by accident. It’s there we have high expectations.

We do believe that we give them all of the resources that they need and there’s a lot of independence for the designers that work with us to be creatively expressive, to run their projects the way that works best for them. While at the same time having a very solid grounded base and resources for them to lean on, which allows them to be totally engaged into the creative side and the client servicing.

Side of this business without having to be mired into all of the logistics and everything that happens behind the scenes as well as all the overhead and strategic things that we have to address on a regular basis as as owners.

Sure, absolutely. Well, we’re at the end of our time and I just would love it if maybe the two of you will give me three great takeaways for people who are listening to this who might be interested in growing their businesses and what would you like to share? Kyle, I’ll start with you.

I would say dream big and don’t be scared. Be cautious and careful, but never stop dreaming because if you can dream it, it can happen. I think that’s probably all wrapped into the same question, but it’s, if there’s something you want to do or a direction you want to go do it, don’t be scared to hold back. If you have a design, a client that you’re working with and you’re scared to throw an idea out.

It may be the best idea that the project has. So dream big, dream wild, and live life to the fullest when it comes to your designs.

So first and foremost, there’s no substitute for hard work. If you really, building off of what Kyle was saying, if you really want to make something happen, it’s going to require hard work. And if anyone has ever told you otherwise, then I would have lots and lots lots of questions for them and might be coming from different resources and things like that. But one,

If you want to make something happen, you’ve got to be prepared to to work extremely hard for that too. And I was on a panel recently and I mentioned the word, you know, whatever you learn from your failures and the one individual replied, you know, I’ve never failed. I’ve only learned from things that didn’t maybe go the way I had planned. And while I agree that that’s a positive spin and we all need to practice being positive.

I’m a very direct, very realist and I don’t mesh words a lot. look, we all fail period is what we do with that. And so yes, we can treat it as a lesson or we can get depressed about it. But my second, my second piece of advice is don’t be afraid of failure. That’s the most valuable way that we learn. so learn from your failures, get back on the horse immediately. And, you know, I always say,

If you’re going to fail, fail quickly, document everything in that process so you don’t make the same mistakes twice, apply the knowledge that you learned, and continue on with your strategy and your goal unless during that failure you identified that your strategy was flawed. So, you know, I think that whole part is really key. We all get way too tied up with being back to what Kyle was saying, with being scared of failure.

And then the last is be patient. Especially in the world we live in right now, I think there’s this idea that we should have immediate gratification. And building a business does not happen overnight. Building success does not happen overnight. We need to have goals and we need to set, you know, to set

our eyes on those goals and do everything that we need to accomplish them. But it does require patience. So that and that’s one that we we don’t always have as designers.

No, we do not. You are absolutely correct. Well, you guys are just wonderful and thank you so much for being on the podcast. And I know that everybody will enjoy hearing what you had to say. So thank you again for your time.

Thank you for having me.